torn and frayed ([info]sweetfratcture) wrote in [info]feminist,
2003-10-15 15:09:00
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  • Mood: accomplished
  • Music: Christina Aguilerra-Can't hold us down

mood: empowered.....

Okay so today I was walking in a gas station to pay for gas before hand and this guy who was parked in front was staring at me as I was walking in and I knew he was staring, but I had my shades on so yeah. He did a double take as i went past and goes "What's your name, ma'am?" and without thinking I went "Not your type" and he goes "you're not gonna tell me?" And I repeated it.


DAMN that felt good. Normally, I would just ignore it, but wow. That really felt good. I should start doing that more often.

just thought I'd share. Sorry, its x-posted.

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  • 366 comments

[info]catwoman980

October 15 2003, 12:28:35 UTC 8 years ago

I apologize if this is unwelcome. I don't normally comment here, but I do read it from time to time.

Would you mind terribly if I linked to this post in fem fatale? I'm really curious to see what people's reactions and interpretations of thsi situation are.

Just so you know what my take on it would be, and perhaps clear your meaning up for me, this is what I'm confused about:

You feel empowered because you were rude to someone who was looking at you and politely asked what your name was? I don't understand.

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 12:31:02 UTC 8 years ago

I felt empowered because I turned down a str8 man who was trying to make a pass at a femme lesbian........


sorry if I didnt make that clear.

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...and 14 more comments... from [info]white_like_mike, [info]sweetfratcture, [info]cgallivan… Expand

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[info]estella7

October 15 2003, 12:57:01 UTC 8 years ago

Straight or gay...unwanted attention is just that--UNWANTED.

I see nothing rude in telling a STRANGER, 'Not your type'.

Go you!

[info]catwoman980

October 15 2003, 13:02:08 UTC 8 years ago

I agree that it's wonderful to express yourself confidently when receiving unwanted attention, but it strikes me that she's proud of snarking at him.

In one of her cross-posts, someone labels him a jackass. He had no idea that his attention would be unwanted. How does that make him a jackass? If she hits on another woman who happens to be straight, does that make her a jackass?

Again, when originally posted, she did not clarify that he was being lewd. I'm still not sure I exactly understand what's rude about "what's your name?".

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[info]lisanys

October 15 2003, 13:02:16 UTC 8 years ago

Do you assume everyone who asks you your name wants to get into your pants? Dare I suggest that he was trying to be neighborly?

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 21:13:01 UTC 8 years ago

No, but I can ususally tell by tone of voice what men's intentions are since I have been hit on since puberty and am a sexual abuse survivor.....

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[info]baset

October 15 2003, 13:13:38 UTC 8 years ago

The man liked the way you looked,so maybe it would have been better if he "hit" on you the proper way?
Example"
getting out of the car,not staring at your boobies (which you saw him do)
saying my name is....whats yours?

I bet he was older then you and it felt kind of creepy to have him talk to you?
I think men just need to find the right way to hit on a gal.

[info]idemandjustice

October 15 2003, 13:32:42 UTC 8 years ago

For me, if it's a stranger, there IS no right way. I will not talk to him.

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[info]idemandjustice

October 15 2003, 13:34:24 UTC 8 years ago

You know, I really hate being stared at. I personally would've felt VERY nervous, and would probably have pretended not to hear him at all. I disagree with those who say you were rude. You were to the point. You had no obligation to tell him your name, or talk to him at all.

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 21:07:34 UTC 8 years ago

thanks!

[info]annis39

October 15 2003, 13:41:36 UTC 8 years ago

good for you. i would've reacted the same way.

to those who think she was rude: i see this as another one of those "context" things. if you're in a place where you're expecting to be sexualized and ogled, such as a bar or nightclub, it's more appropriate for men/women/whoever to come up to you and hit on you, and responding in the way she did could be considered rude. if you're at the gas station, a situation in which you are merely attempting to carry out your everyday life and not expecting to be sexualized and approached flirtatiously, it's entirely understandable that you might feel threatened and react in fashion that might be rude under other circumstances. but in that place, at that time, it's not. if a random guy starts hitting on me at the grocery store, i tend to get creeped out, despite the fact that i'm hetero and even if he's physically attractive. it's just not an appropriate venue in which to approach someone in that way.

[info]catwoman980

October 15 2003, 13:47:48 UTC 8 years ago

Ok, now I'm beyond confused. There are appropriate and non appropriate places to be attracted to others? I met my current signigicant other at work, not a bar or club. I've had lots of interesting conversations in grocery stores with perfect strangers, some of them even flirtatious. I never felt threatened or sexualized. I'm still not convinced that "what's your name, ma'am?" can really be terribly threatening without some other context. She didn't say that he was licking his lips, grabbing his crotch, or anything of that nature. It's not like he asked her if she spits or swallows or something, you know?

Why are so many of you assuming he was sexualizing her with such limited information?

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[info]rkt

October 15 2003, 13:45:58 UTC 8 years ago


what i want to know is how often have the women who don't agree with her response have had to deal with unwanted male attention?

it's decreased than what i've experienced, but for me in the past, i couldn't go seven days without being hit on leeringly. walking down the street. waiting for the bus. riding the bus. sitting in the park. wherever.
i have friends who never get approached and don't get my annoyance.
am i babe? hell no. but i look (deceptively) "nice" .
which, i guess, is what you could call my "problem".

i tried ignoring it.
didn't work. and felt useless.
i tried being polite.
didn't work. and felt useless.
i tried "being a bitch".
didn't work. was called a bitch (i guess i'm supposed to be greatful to anyone who finds to be a sexual object.) and felt more empowered.

while i'm not entirely sure what your sexuality has to do with anything, i think i understand your basic point.

[info]catwoman980

October 15 2003, 13:51:29 UTC 8 years ago

what i want to know is how often have the women who don't agree with her response have had to deal with unwanted male attention?

Um, a hell of a lot, which is why I can tell the difference betweena man who's threatening me and a man who just thinks I'm cute and wants to strike up a conversation. This, from the information provided, sounds like the former.

And again, I see absolutely NO problem with her being bitchy or snarky. I just dont' see how that makes her empowered and him a jackass. You're imposing your personal negative experience on this situation. There is little to no indication that he considered her a sexual object.

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[info]prettykate

October 15 2003, 13:52:58 UTC 8 years ago

Rock on!

I don't think you were rude AT ALL. STARING IS RUDE, and you weren't insulting him by saying "not your type". I mean, you are a lesbian! That is a pretty accurate statement! Even if you were a hetero, I would have said the same thing. He should have dropped it when he realized you were not interested. He wanted to pressure you into a conversation and that is NOT polite.

If someone is being rude enough to stare at you and make you feel uncomfortable, don't question yourself. You feel uncomfortable for a reason. You do NOT have to talk to people if you don't want to, no matter how polite they are.

Thanks for sharing this story!

[info]angel_thane

October 15 2003, 14:09:05 UTC 8 years ago

Shouldn't it be noted that he wasn't just oggling her! He came up to her, tried to make introductions.

Maybe its just that I'm a Canuck, but strangers talk to each other all the time.. IN the grocery store, at the mall, in other non-shopping environments.

Somebody was trying to be friendly. Yes, he probably found her attractive, but so what? That doesn't mean that that's all that he was interested. Not only did she miss out on the chance at possibly meeting an interesting person, but she did it in a demeaning way.

I have to agree with CatWoman on the doublestandardness, but really, why is it empowering to be dismissive of people?

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[info]saecha

October 15 2003, 13:56:55 UTC 8 years ago

I've taken to being "rude" too in these situations. I'm also a lesbian and when I lived in NYC I couldn't go one day without SOMEthing like this happening, and much of it could have been called "polite" out of context. But even if a guy is being "polite," he's still leering, it's still obvious what he's after and "what's your name," even if you do attach "ma'am" on the end of it is in NO way an appropriate way to begin a conversation with a perfect stranger. Sometimes we have to resort to bitchy comments in these cases because if we're nice at ALL, if we throw them a proverbial bone it's interpreted as flirting back.

And sometimes it does feel damn good to say fuck you to ladylike politeness. :)

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 21:02:52 UTC 8 years ago

if we throw them a proverbial bone it's interpreted as flirting back.

And sometimes it does feel damn good to say fuck you to ladylike politeness. :)

exactly the point I was trying to make all along. If we even remotely smile at a guy like that, that's taken as an invite to keep going, even if it is a forced smile, some guys don't see through it and take it and run. If we don't do anything at all, a guy might take offense to that or use his "powers of pursuasion" to try and get us to open up. Sometimes I've found the only thing people will understand is rudeness.

I had this one situation where this guy who comes around sinclair who's homless and will talk to anyone would hit on any girl who looked like she wanted to simply be his friend. I tried to be his friend and talk to him because I felt sorry for him. So he continually hit on me and my friends till one day it just got to us. I told him I was a lesbian thinking that would get him to stop. He was like "well, should I wear a wig and wear a dress then, will that work?" by then I was furious and I went "maybe at Celebrity(a local gay bar), but not with me" and he goes "well maybe you just need a little dick in your life"...I was so furious I couldnt talk without wanting to raise hell and straight girl-friend of mine told him she was my girfriend and went, "we have all the dicks we need in our dresser drawer!' and everyone DIES laughing and he shut up. so it just proves that you need to be rude to some people. He stopped comming around the buidling to even ask for change from strangers after that!

[info]frightened

October 15 2003, 14:11:17 UTC 8 years ago

Go you!

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 20:42:32 UTC 8 years ago

*grins* thanks!

[info]parkerposie

October 15 2003, 14:32:34 UTC 8 years ago

Lets pull a reverse Gloria Steinem

Okay so today I was walking in a gas station to pay for gas before hand and this woman who was parked in front was staring at me as I was walking in and I knew she was staring, but I had my shades on so yeah. She did a double take as i went past and goes "What's your name, ma'am?" and without thinking I went "Not your type" and she goes "you're not gonna tell me?" And I repeated it.

DAMN that felt good. Normally, I would just ignore it, but wow. That really felt good. I should start doing that more often.

[info]saecha

October 15 2003, 14:56:56 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Lets pull a reverse Gloria Steinem

I don't see anything wrong with that either.

[info]parkerposie

8 years ago

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8 years ago

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8 years ago

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8 years ago

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[info]jfpbookworm

October 15 2003, 14:45:59 UTC 8 years ago

I get the impression that people are filling the gaps in information with what they want to believe--some with a very sexualized, leering, confrontational man demanding this person's name, the others with a much more inoffensive man who, though maybe not the most socially adept, is trying to be polite.

Though I think there's more evidence in the original post for the former, I tend to think of the latter because that's what I identify with. I've been shy for a long time. For a while, I tried to be outgoing by talking to people around me more often. Generally, it was a good thing: I was nice, they were nice, and I left feeling a little better about myself and hoping they did too. I don't think I was ogling or otherwise sexualizing these interactions, though I would try to make compliments and eye contact, behavior that could be interpreted as "hitting on" someone.

I know that this is a classic case of "not her problem," but I'm wondering what behavior folks actually expect from other people in such situations. There doesn't seem to be a solution that doesn't involve telepathy or the reading of "signals" that are usually more ambiguous than their originators think.

[info]catwoman980

October 15 2003, 15:23:44 UTC 8 years ago

Why do you think there's more evidence that it was the former? Personally, I think there's no evidence whatsoever that it was.

[info]cascadianista

8 years ago

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[info]sarahshines

October 15 2003, 14:50:22 UTC 8 years ago

Well, that was quite rude of you.

[info]springreleased1

October 15 2003, 15:47:19 UTC 8 years ago

My immediate reaction to this was "that was incredibly rude of you". I don't know the whole situation, of course. If he was being rude, if he was obviously starting at your breasts or something, than yes, good for you to tell him off. However, the way you described it in your initial post implied to me that he was simply about to ask you something or was just making friendly conversation, and that you reacted very rudely in response.

I definately think people are inserting their own ideas of the situation into this. Hence the mixed reactions of either "go you!" or "that was rude of you".

[info]catwoman980

October 15 2003, 15:54:50 UTC 8 years ago

Exactly. I was the only one to start out by saying "Hmmm. This sounds kind of odd. Can you clarify?" and tried not to make assumptions. That has spawned a slew of people going "OMG he was obviously a big jerk and practically a sexual predator! what's wrong with you?!"

I'm even being accused of being a chauvinist sympathizer.

How DARE a woman question another woman! *rolls eyes*

[info]springreleased1

8 years ago

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[info]idemandjustice

8 years ago

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8 years ago

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[info]fifthconundrum

October 15 2003, 16:35:12 UTC 8 years ago

just thought I'd share.

So glad you did. I am taking notes, for future reference. :-)

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 19:05:43 UTC 8 years ago

LOL, right on

....though I'm not sure I'm the best one to learn from *winks*

[info]amybelle1210

October 15 2003, 16:41:17 UTC 8 years ago

Um..I don't think you were being rude at all. Once I was at a gas station and went to get a drink inside when some guy was blatantly followinig me around. He finally asked me my name but I tried to ignore him and he kept following me anyway. So finally I turned around and yelled GO AWAY and I was quite proud of myself. He was a bit shocked. But going out in public doesn't mean putting ourselves out on a buffet. I think you reacted just fine.

[info]girl_with_purse

October 15 2003, 16:59:54 UTC 8 years ago

You did the right thing

I live in New Bedford Massachusetts where many are druggie losers, jobless by choice losers, ambitionless losers, well, you get my point. I've gotten to the point that I can tell when a man wants something from me and I act the same way this woman did.

It is empowering to tell someone with alternative motives to take a hike; why? BECAUSE! Because every time you do that you reinforce your confidence in yourself that you will be able to handle yourself the next time some idiot tries a stupid, lame ass line on you.

[info]goddesscarlie

October 15 2003, 18:00:41 UTC 8 years ago

Re: You did the right thing

It is empowering to tell someone with alternative motives to take a hike; why? BECAUSE! Because every time you do that you reinforce your confidence in yourself that you will be able to handle yourself the next time some idiot tries a stupid, lame ass line on you

You explained it so much better than me. I agree with you!

[info]sweetfratcture

8 years ago

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8 years ago

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8 years ago

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[info]swinginpagan

October 15 2003, 17:52:30 UTC 8 years ago

Tossing in my two cents...

I think she did the right thing. It’d be different if she went off on some random person, but it sounds like her response was appropriate, given the context and her description of the situation.

To me, it sounds like he assumed she would want to talk to him, or that he had a right to command her attention, or that he just felt like messing with a pretty woman for little more than the sheer pleasure of acting like a buttmonkey, since I’d be surprised if “What’s your name” is a line that gets him many chicks. Besides, if he was concerned enough about politeness to call her ma’am, shouldn’t he also have been polite enough to not pop off with a request for information as his opening salvo?

Also, and I realize this could sound somewhat alarmist, but I've read that predators are known to use an aggressive friendliness paired with an amiable insult to engage their victims, and that's sorta kinda vaguely reminiscent of this particular exchange. The example I read was of a woman who was hauling her groceries into her apartment and some strange man offered to help. She turned him down and he smiled and made some crack like, “What? Oh I get it, you’re too proud to accept help.” She felt sheepish, figured he was alright and let him carry a bag up to her apartment, where things took a turn for the worse...

In this case, he asked for her name and she shut him down. When he said “You’re not gonna tell me?” perhaps her response was supposed to be “Oh tee hee, that was rude of me. I’m sorry! My name’s Barbie, what’s yours?” If his response had been more contrite, I would have said that she reacted too harshly, but his undaunted reply indicates to me that he knew he was being a buttmonkey and he didn’t particularly care. I’d be interested to know how old he was.

Now don’t get me wrong, I am in no way the type to go running around fearing that every man’s a rapist waiting to happen, but I always think of that article when some doof tries that type of exchange with me. The information in the original post indicates to me that he was just saw someone pretty and thought he could get away with swinging his dick a little, pardon the expression. If he was genuinely interested in making a new friend, I don’t think he would have acted so boorishly.

So yeah, that's what I think...

[info]goddesscarlie

October 15 2003, 17:59:25 UTC 8 years ago

if I did it, i'd find myself feeling empowered aswell. Why? Because I am shy and introverted, and when a man does that, I don't know what to do. But it I just snapped back at him, rudely or not, I'd feel a sense of empowerment that I am getting rid of unwanted attention. I'd feel like I was taking charge of myself.

As to all the other comments that "that's rude", it doesn't matter much does it. You don't know the guy and it's hardly likely that you'll see him again. Nothing to cry about that you were rude to him. Even if his intentions were good, i'm sure he'll get over it. If he's that open, it's probably happened to him plenty of times

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 18:51:19 UTC 8 years ago

The reason I reacted to him like that, because he seemed like the kind of guy that would holla at anything with breasts and an ass. I mean, hell he said that to me, who knows how far he's gotten and what he's done with other women who WOULD fall at his feet. He was a nice looking man, but I know from experience that those are the ones to watch out for because they think their looks will carry them everywhere and get them anywhere with women. But i'm a lesbian, that's why I said "not your type" and it felt good. damn good.

[info]sweetfratcture

8 years ago

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[info]strand3d

October 15 2003, 18:23:16 UTC 8 years ago

I'm always rude to men who hit on me, i find it disgusting a rude when i'm walking down the street, or driving, and i get comments from men when they aren't welcome. I usually flip them off or tell them to fuck off. I don't need to be called 'baby' by random strangers. Anyway, good for you!

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 18:40:24 UTC 8 years ago

right on

thanks! :-)

[info]jerry_seinfeld

8 years ago

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8 years ago

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8 years ago

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[info]ex_saturate580

October 15 2003, 18:27:02 UTC 8 years ago

You are not wrong for feeling empowered. I would feel the same way if I were able to stand up for myself like that. I'm sure there was a tone or some kind of body language that made you uncomfortable, and that's why you responded the way you did - and rightfully so! There are so many times that I feel uncomfortable or even ridiculed by some catcalling bastard. Even if it's something as simple as "What's your name?" the way they say it can be so invasive. I usually walk away from those situations with my eyes down, and kick myself in the ass later because of what I *wish* I had said to them!

Go you. You weren't rude, you were assertive.

[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 18:39:35 UTC 8 years ago

I usually walk away from those situations with my eyes down, and kick myself in the ass later because of what I *wish* I had said to them!


hehe I had to laugh cause that's me all the way. My friends are usually saying "are you gonna let him talk to you like that?" My friends are a hell of a lot bolder than I am.

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[info]sweetfratcture

October 15 2003, 21:28:06 UTC 8 years ago

not a smart move my friend......


Like the right to tell you to learn how to spell and use proper grammer before posting a comment? maybe?
or how about the right to tell people like you to fuck off?

[info]mobyhater

October 16 2003, 00:00:18 UTC 8 years ago

Wow, I'm sure you made him feel like complete crap too. I bet he won't be asking anyone else their name!

You go girl!

[info]sweetfratcture

October 16 2003, 19:42:24 UTC 8 years ago

LOL

as many responses as I've had to this I can't tell if you're being genuine or a genuine smart-ass.

[info]mobyhater

8 years ago

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[info]girlvinyl

8 years ago

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[info]sweetfratcture

8 years ago

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[info]corvus

October 19 2003, 17:29:08 UTC 8 years ago

A/S/L?

[info]girlvinyl

October 19 2003, 18:48:08 UTC 8 years ago

Empowering would've been to face him, look him in the eye - tell him your name and wait for him to finish his sentence.

If he's selling something, asking directions, wanting to bum change, then you follow up accordingly. Even if he says 'hey, can I get your number?" A civil smile and "sorry, I'm not into guys." Is the human thing to do.

Feminism is not the antithesis of common courtesy and respect for your fellow human. It sounds to me like he applied reasonable politelness - ie ma'am, asking your name, as opposed to catcalling or saying something sexual and inappropriate - and you responded with rudeness motivated by fear. [Rudeness, motivated by fear with this strange, vain assumption that no man would ever speak to you for any other reason than to get into your panties... oddly conceited.]

Knee-jerk, fight/flight reactions are certainly not 'empowering'. They're fear manifesting outwardly. I'm not sure what you're afraid of, but facing up to it and conquering it will feel far more empowering than letting it control your actions.

[info]sebatical

October 19 2003, 20:15:52 UTC 8 years ago

*applauds*

[info]cascadianista

8 years ago

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